04
2008
I had the best time with my Monday Interview Podcast with Dave Snyder aka the cry baby! Take a listen above or read the transcript below to get total access to Dave admitting that he cries, a lot!
Garrett: Hello everyone. This is Garrett Pierson, YourSEOMentor. I’m here with Dave Snyder of Snydeysense.com, and SearchandSocial.com. How are you Dave?
Dave: I’m doing well. How are you doing?
Garrett: I’m good. It’s great to have you here, I’m excited. Why don’t you tell us a bit more about yourself, for those who might not know you; a little bit of your background in SEO, online marketing, social media, your family; anything you want to talk about?
Dave: I used to be a teacher for three years, when I first got out of school. I actually played music for a year when I first got out of school and just hung out. I didn’t know what to do with myself so I became a teacher. I’d always wanted to be a writer. My love for writing, and my huge love for sports, led me to start working for some content sites. They were a lot of fantasy football and basketball sites.
From that writing I started my own site and got into affiliate marketing just to keep the revenue up, to actually have the site pay for itself. I then got into SEO and all kinds of things. From there I decided that maybe the Web was the place for me to go. I really just wanted to start off as a content writer and editor. I ended up looking into SEO and getting more into it. I took a job in the agency world.
From there I worked with an agency for a while and I toiled in an agency in an online marketing manager. We all know how agency work can go. It can be pretty grueling sometimes. I learned a lot; mostly from just being thrown into the fire.
Now I’m the search and social media strategist for JRDunn.com. We’re the world’s largest designer jewelry store. I’m also the cofounder of SearchandSocial.com, with Jordan Kasteler. We’re a SEO and social media consultancy. We also do our own online media.
I’m also a proud father of two boys and I have a beautiful wife. I live in Florida. I’m a really big guy, for anybody who doesn’t see my tweets all the time. I’m about 6’2 ½´ and 285lbs. I’m an imposing fellow. I have a lot of tattoos. I look really scary but when you get to know me I’m just a really big teddy bear. I’m a really sweet guy. I cried at both my kids’ births and I cried at my wedding.
Garrett: Whoa! You just admitted that you cried.
Dave: Actually, I admitted that today on Twitter, and my jerk-off of a partner, Jordan Kasteler, laughed at me in front of everybody. So, I’m a really sensitive guy. I really pride myself on just being a really good person. Especially since my sons have been born, it’s something that I try to go out of my way to be; a genuinely good and nice person. It’s just important to me. I think when people meet me they get one image of me and they’re kind of set back later on, “He’s really not like what we thought. We thought he’d be like a convict and he’s actually a nice guy.”
Garrett: Good. This is good for everybody to know; when they do meet you, not to be scared.
Dave: It’s good timing. When they see me at SEC San Jose, where I’ll be doing two panels, they shouldn’t run away. They should come up and talk to me.
Garrett: Why don’t you talk about that for a second? What panels are you on? That’s coming up pretty soon, isn’t it?
Dave: SES San Jose is going to be from the 18th to the 21st. I’m on two panels on the 20th. I’m on some really cool panels. One of them is Social Media Optimization Tactics, with Lee Evans and Kendall Allen. We’ll be talking about different social media tactics. I think the way that I’m going to approach that panel is to talk about something I really believe in, which is using social media to control SERP equity, getting as much as you can.
I don’t know if you read the post by Aaron Wall a while ago, talking about what the different value of the different rankings is, but to me I always look at, “What if we can’t get to number one? How about we have the other nine spots on the first page?” That social media equity is important to that. I think that’s the way I’m going to go with that panel.
The other panel I was invited to speak on is super intimidating for me. It’s Andy Beal and Neil Patel and me. I’m calling that “Andy Beal, Neil Patel and Random Fat Guy”. That’s the name of that panel. It’s actually on Facebook and feeds. I’m going to talk about FriendFeed.
I’m a really big proponent of FriendFeed. I think the next big link building concept might come out of the FriendFeed platform, just because FriendFeed is going to be the next really big link building platform. I’ll probably be proven wrong on that, but it’s an RSS feed on steroids; a bunch of RSS feeds together. It’s mash up ability. It’s also cool because it’s one of the first platforms with open ID and open social that tries to bring all social media onto one little platform. I think that’s the way the Web might move. I’m excited about that.
I guess it’s just such an honor to be on a panel with Andy Beal and Neal Patel; even Li Evans. I’ve been just been really luck getting to know Kevin Ryan, the guy that runs SES, he’s taken a shining to me for some reason. He’s put me on some good panels. I’m really fortunate.
Garrett: That’s great. We’ll all be excited about that. What are some of the things you really enjoy about search engine marketing (SEM), search engine optimization (SEO), the whole industry, and your career? What are some of the top things you really enjoy?
Dave: I think the thing that made me stick with this and keep with it is the challenge of it. Everyday there’s something new. It’s constantly evolving. You can go home one day, come into work the next day, and all of a sudden our industry can change. That’s exciting to me. I’m a self-learner. I’ve taught myself SEO as well as most things I know. The ability to be in an industry that’s really about self-education is exciting. I always equate it to good NFL quarterbacks. They have a lot of physical talent, but to be a really good NFL quarterback, you really have to have a lot of desire to study and watch film. You need to want to take it to the next level. That’s how I feel about SEO.
The really great people at search engine optimization are talented yes, but I think there’s a lot of talent, but they’re the ones who want to take it to the next level. They’re willing to study and learn everything there is; to be open-minded and just push themselves to a point that makes them great. I just get so excited about this industry.
Garrett: I totally agree with you on everything you just said. If you had one good gold nugget of advice to give to a newbie in the SEO and social media industry, what would it be?
Dave: I think the most important thing for somebody just starting out is to find five or ten really good resources of information on the Web. There is so much misinformation about what we do out there. They could wade in that for years. I think somebody starting out needs to find five or ten good blogs, forums or whatever it is, whether they are in little niche disciplines or general, where they could really become part of the community and get to understand what it is that we do and get a good footing; hands on learning.
I think there is so much misinformation out there that just getting really good information, getting in and focusing yourself is important. SEO Book, David Harry’s blog, just going on Sphinn and getting some of the good content there, Search Engine Journal, Search Engine Land, Snydey Sense is a wonderful blog for everybody starting out. Your blog, or even some of the different learning programs like your learning program, SEO Book again. It’s really about getting the right information.
Once you’ve found the places you have found comfortable, growing there for a while before you set out somewhere else. I think there are so many people out there who fake it until they make it. They’ll pretend they’re big in the game, “I’m top notch, I do this, and I do that.” You need to learn how to play the game before you jump in. That’s the biggest advice I’d give people.
Garrett: That’s some great advice. In your opinion, what is the most exciting trend in the SEO, SEM and social media industries today?
Dave: I guess one term I like to use is the ‘mash up’. When I talk about a mash up, I talk about search and social. To me, universal and blended search is really a mash up. We’ve taken our old list of blue links and we’ve mashed in video and photos and one-boxes and all kinds of stuff. It completely changed the way we approach SEO. Local search changed that. This mash up of media into the search has really changed the way we approach our search engine optimization.
Also with social media, the mash ups that are happening now on places like Plurk, FriendFeed, where you can mash videos into conversations. You can do video comments on blogs. I think this concept of bringing different things together and not being like, “Here’s one section. Here’s one section. Here’s one section”. Just having different medias that you can push and pull together is really something cool to see.
At the same time, it’s really difficult for us as SEO’s because one day you’ll be number five for a spot and be pulling in really good revenue and conversion, and the next day somebody’s YouTube video that they just put up will be there. That’s all part of what we do. That’s part of the challenge and fun of our job.
Garrett: The word that comes to my mind is ‘aggregation’. It’s aggregating all the best into one spot. That’s great. Going on with social media; with the rise of social media and the new trend, how do you see it changing the Web in the next year or two?
Dave: I think social media and the Web is going to go this way. I think everyone is going to become hyper-niche and hyper-local in the next two or three years. When we say social media to most business people MySpace and Facebook are the first thing they think of. Those are social networks obviously and don’t encompass all social media, but as far as those huge traffic aggregates, neither of them have figured out how to monetize that traffic.
If you break things down into smaller niches, which a lot of social networks are doing now, it becomes a little clearer on how you monetize. The same conversation happens about Twitter and all of these other things. They’re great concepts, but how do we make money off this now? When you start to break it into a little bit more of a niche pattern, like a social network for thirty year old singles, now you understand how to monetize that traffic a little bit more. I just see things becoming a little bit cleaner as far as how it will become a little more hyper-local. Local search is going to be huge in the next two years and social media as well. I think it’s going to get local and a little more niche driven.
Garrett: I like that. Staying on the social media topic; what’s your favorite social media site online today, and why?
Dave: I think everybody will probably know it’s Twitter. It’s weird. I love Twitter because I think social media is all about engagement. The value of social media, as far as a reputation management tool, and the true meaning of social media; put search to the side. Search adds a different aspect to social media. True social media is about socialization. It’s about having communication and engagement. I don’t know if there’s been a platform like Twitter that’s purely based on engagement; people interacting with each other and sharing ideas, concepts, even doing the bookmarking concept in a social format.
I mix FriendFeed in there as well because it allows the same kind of engagement. When I’m uploading a picture to Flickr, I see your picture on Flickr right away and I can comment on it. Those are my favorites.
I also owe a lot to Twitter because since I’ve been on the platform, all my speaking gigs, my relationship with Kevin Ryan, my business partner, almost everything that I have right now in this industry, has come from the platform. I think that really shows what a powerful, personal branding tool it is.
Garrett: I totally agree. That’s how you and I met. We’ve never met each other on the street or at a conference or anything. We’ve only talked through Twitter, really.
Dave: I met Andy Beal on Twitter. I asked him about writing a forward on Twitter. Every single speaker I have going to Scary SEO I met on Twitter. Everything I’ve done so far has come from there. I just feel a personal allegiance to it. Also, it’s just a really powerful engagement tool. If it didn’t have so many issues, and it’s been better lately; I’ve seen maybe a couple hiccups in the last two weeks as far as network issues, but it’s become a little bit more stable since they purchased Summize. It seems to kind of coincide.
Garrett: Who are some of your favorite people in the SEO and social media industry that you continually follow online?
Dave: I’m going to not be like Jordan, and I’m going to say ‘Jordan’. When he did his interview with you, he left me out. That made me cry a little. It’s very upsetting. Jordan, aside from being my business partner, he’s obviously a really great mind in social media and SEO. He knows his stuff. He’s a top digger and he really understands where things are going. He’s a great young mind and I’ve been blessed to be able to work with him so far. Hopefully we can keep our relationship going for a while, and our company growing.
Then there’s David Harry. Those two guys, Andy Beal and Dave Harry have been awesome. What’s weird about the industry is that you can have a mentor, like Your SEO Mentor, without that person ever knowing that they’re your mentor. Andy Beal and David Harry, just through the conversations that we have had and the way they have kind of taken me on, on different occasions, have helped shape the person I am. I’m really into reputation management. That obviously comes from Andy. A lot of my other beliefs come from David. Those are two, not only really great internet marketers, they’re also two really great guys and down to Earth. I really respect them.
There’s Garrett Pierson. What a great guy. ‘SugarRae’; Rae Hoffman. I write about her a lot because she overcame a lot when she first got into the business. She got into the business because of a personal tragedy with her son. She has so much fire. She’s one of those people who is personally motivated. She fires me up all the time. She’s pretty brilliant as well.
There is also Brandy Eddings who is a paid search person that Jordan and I have had the luck of working with. She is just really sharp on paid search. She’s really just coming out in the field now, but you’re going to want to listen for her name because she knows her stuff. She’s written some guest posts on Snydey Sense.
Then there’s the ‘Mad Hat’ Aaron. He’s another brilliant guy. I don’t know if you see that there’s a theme here of people here who are not the typical SEO rock stars, but that are kind of well known. I feel like a kindred spirit with some of these people because these people are about their business; they’re about going out and proving themselves through results and not so much about the nonsense that can come up sometimes in our industry.
Lisa Barone is a really great SEO writer. Chris Winfield and Lee Odden; I had the privilege of sharing a panel with them. Those guys are not only clearly brilliant, but also are two of the nicest guys I’ve ever met. They’re really smart. I love reading 10e20 blog; it’s a top ranked blog. They’re smart guys.
The list could go on and on. I really like learning from other people. I’m not one of these egotistical guys that feel like I know everything. I pretty much think I know nothing all the time. I’ll suck up any information that anybody has to give me. I really like learning, talking to people, communicating with people and I think that’s what makes me a little bit different than some of the other people in our industry.
Garrett: That’s great. I know you’re putting together what you call a ‘mini-con’, a conference out there in Florida, called Scary SEO. I think a lot of those people you’ve mentioned are speaking out there, aren’t they?
Dave: We’ve gotten really lucky with our speaker list. I’ll probably miss some people: Loren Baker, the editor of Search Engine Journal is coming out. He’s a really great speaker. He doesn’t do a lot of speaking events but he’s doing ours. Rhea Drysdale is coming, also from Search Engine Journal, a great SEO writer. She’s going to be talking about link building and some other things. Carolyn Shelby is coming out, from SEO 101, on Webmaster Radio. Jordan is coming out. Martin Bowling, he’s a really smart guy. He’s also a really great guy to follow on Twitter. He’s one of those guys that I just love having conversations with. He’s really genuine in his engagement. There’s a guy from here in south Florida, John Carcutt. He won the Search Engine Journal contest this year. He’s a really smart guy. He’s going to be speaking there. Brian Carter, and Brian Chappell.
We really have a great speaker list for Scary SEO. Basically, what Scary SEO is, is it’s going to be a mini-con. Right now I’m limiting it to fifty people because we really don’t want it to be like a normal panel where somebody’s talking at you, “Here’s what I know, here’s what you should know”. I think a lot of people leave those places not understanding exactly how to utilize the information. Going back to my teaching days, we’re going to use some teaching strategies.
First we’re going to do a normal presentation, but then we’re actually going to get out in the audience and work hands-on with the people that are there; to look at their sites, to see how we could utilize those strategies to make their internet marketing efforts better. It’s going to be about learning, a genuine learning experience. It’s going to be about networking and a lot of fun.
We have some great events planned. One night we’re going to take a limo bus to the Hard Rock Casino down here, which has Black Jack and poker; everything you could want. It has twenty clubs. Another night, the tentative plans are to have a yacht party on the Fort Lauderdale Intercoastal. It’s going to be a lot of fun.
The whole ticket price for the two days of training, breakfast, hot lunch, snacks, everything you can do as well as the social stuff, is only two hundred dollars. We’re really trying to make it an event that we want people to come and be like, “Wow! That’s how a conference should be. It was low cost, a lot of learning, a lot of fun and something everyone is talking about and remembers.”
Garrett: I think Brandy Eddings is speaking there too, isn’t she? (To see all the speakers click here)
Dave: Yes. Brandy Eddings is coming, and Pamela Lund. Pamela is an interesting speaker. She’s talking about how to manage customer expectations and client expectations and how to educate clients. She’s not so much and SEO, as she has managed SEO’s before. She’s been involved in online media law. We also have a very good looking group of speakers. I’ve tried to make it as hot and sexy for everybody as possible.
Garrett: I think we got all of the speakers that are going to be speaking there. If any of the listeners want to see what that’s all about, go to Scaryseo.com. I’ll have a link to that here at YouSEOMentor.com. If you’re listening to this at iTunes, or on your iPod, go to YourSEOMentor.com if you can’t find it. Also, I think the only thing we missed is what’s the date?
Dave: Originally we were going to plan if for Halloween. The whole concept of Scary SEO was having this SEO conference planned around a holiday; something a little bit different, rather than being planned around one of the big brands. We originally had it around Halloween for Scary SEO. But we found a lot of people were having issues with travelling. A lot of people have kids and don’t want to miss trick-or-treating. We moved it to the 24th and 25th of October.
It’s in Fort Lauderdale at the Deerfield Beach Hilton. It’s a great venue. A lot of people have said they’re really excited about the venue because they’ve done business there and done events there before. Again, it’s October 24th-25th. It’s a Friday-Saturday. It will be two jam packed days of fun, food, SEO. It should be a great time.
Garrett: Wonderful. Finally, if my listeners would like to find out more about you and your services online, where should they go? For example, your Twitter. Why don’t you just give that out quickly.
Dave: My Twitter is @davesnyder. I am a genuine follower. I usually follow back unless you show you’re really not valuable for me to follow.
I’m all over the Web with the writing. I went to school for writing. I’m into it. One place to find out about me and my services is on the company’s website, SearchandSocial.com. Jordan and I are actually starting up a blog soon, with some really good writers.
I also write at Snydeysense.com. I really try to do more teaching there. I guess the teachings on Snydeysense.com are on a mid-level. It’s for people who have been in the market for a little while and understand kind of what’s going on and want to take their stuff to the next level. I also write at MarketingPilgrim, Andy Beal’s blog. I do a couple of posts there. I also have been writing on SportsAgentBlog.com, about reputation management in the sports market. That’s weird; it’s one market that’s really been changed because of social media. There is nobody out there speaking about how some of these athletes aren’t making twenty million a year. They’re making ninety thousand off of sponsorships or off of prize money. They can have their livelihood completely taken away from a reputation crisis online. I speak a little bit about reputation management in the sports world a little bit, over there.
Garrett: Dave, I totally appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to speak with me. I appreciate the great content you’ve given and the great content you give out there on all you sites and wherever you write. You are definitely a great writer. Thank you for being here today.
Dave: Thank you.
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Tags: Aaron Wall, Andy Beal, Brandy Eddings, Chris Winfield, Dave Harry, Dave Snyder, FriendFeed, Interview, Jorda Kasteler, Kevin Ryan, Lee Odden, Li Evans, Loren Baker, Podcast, Search Engine Journal, SearchandSocial.com, SEO, SEO Book, SES San Jose, Snydeysense.com, Social Media, Sphinn, Twitter
